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This 2/25/2008 update (supplemented by an additional update on 2/26/08 and another on 2/27/2008) of this post contains something most of you have probably not seen before, and Doug Dawg is here to tell you a story. It’s a story about www.march4vote.org. It’s a story about Tom Dellner and how he got his tongue stuck on a pole on a cold day in Oklahoma City!
|Everyone Loves A Good Story!
- In looking up www.march4vote.org to find it’s location, various sources pointed to California and/or Seattle. It is recalled that Washington newspapers credited that organization as being an Oklahoma based organization opposed to the March 4 vote. That 1st pass is detailed, below. Doug Dawgz education then got a “bump” as explained below … these addresses are commonly used Yahoo names and don’t necessarily point to a website’s real location, especially if they are wanting to keep that location secret by registering in a way that keeps the secret! Egg on Doug Dawgz face!
- 2nd Stage Analysis. Then, I thought that a “reverse lookup” might prove the point. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t … but speculation was still involved either way.
- Logical Analysis. Then, I approached the matter from a logical perspective, and I’ll stand by the same. But, still, it doesn’t actually prove anything, even it the logic makes sense.
I put the matter down and went on to “more important things!”
But a gnawing, itching, burning, sensation in my toes (I tried chemicals to stop it but the sensation persisted) caused me to wonder about “similarly” named websites. As you may know, it is commonplace for one wanting to register a domain name to “buy” several at the same time so that others wouldn’t get the use of similarly named domain names. So, if you’re wanting your domain name to be an *.org, or a *.com, you might buy both, even though you’d probably only use one of them — mapsformillionaires.com and mapsformillionaires.org provide an example. This is a common practice.
While the true location of www.march4vote.org is hidden, what about www.march4vote.com? On an itchy hunch, I did a Network Solutions search for the “.com” version of the name and came up with this:
Hmmm … that doesn’t look the same as the march4vote.org website … I did a side-by-side comparison …
On inspection of the above, you’ll see that
- Both were registered on the same date, 2/4/2008.
- Both use the principal name, “March4Vote.”
- Both show either the “registrant” or the “organization” or the “admin name” as being “Voter Power.”
- While the *.org true locale is hidden, in the *.com it’s not … in the latter, the “super secret” mode of domain name registration which probably cost a few more bucks was not chosen! YEA! It’s all hanging out there for all to see. YES!
- Address: 550 Stockton St, San Francisco, CA 94108, phone 415.399.9794. I’ll be calling that phone number tomorrow, while Ted Streuli at the Journal Record waits for his expected cup of coffee! He said …
UPDATE 4:48 p.m.: Just received a voicemail from Rob Jones. Rob assures me that IP address is tied to the Yahoo nameserver that holds their domain name. Yahoo, he said, uses Melbourne IT Ltd., dba Internet Names Worldwide. Alas, he didn’t leave a number. He insists he’s local and offered to come by for coffee next week. Frankly, I believe him.
On February 26, I’ve learned that I was hasty in my criticism of Mr. Streuli when I said, originally,”This ‘journalist’ trusts a voice mail that doesn’t leave a phone number??? I wish that I had emoticons here, cause I’d be slapping my face! Several times.”
And, for that coarse language, I apologize to Mr. Streuli … probably a dumb bad case of “combat fatigue” … Mr. Streuli is clearly a friend of Oklahoma City and I was way out of line in putting quotation marks around the word, “journalist,” when referring to him. While I still don’t understand why he said, “Frankly, I believe him,” it was wrong of me to opine/infer that there weren’t any.
In any event, on 2/26/2008, he posted this in his blog:
Doug Loudenback put a lot of time into hunting down the march4vote.org people and turned up more links to the West Coast for Voter Power, which also happens to be one of the e-mail aliases Rob Jones is using. That’s tenacity.
Rob Jones, by the way, has yet to appear at our office as promised. He also hasn’t responded to requests for any other proof of identity or residence.
For my part, I made two telephone calls on 2/26/08, to the number shown for Mr. Dellner in the Network Solutions report. An automated answering system does not apparently contain his name in the automated directory there, but I left a message saying who I was, left my phone number, and requested a call back. I’ll let you know if I get that call back any sooner than Mr. Streuli gets his cup of coffee!
Update 2/27/2008 11:15 p.m. I’ve just received this e-mail, exactly as shown below:
Dell Hoo wrote:
If you have questions regarding my relationship with Chris Lopez [emphasis supplied … this doesn’t sound like the “Rob” who contacted Mr. Streuli (above)] and March4Vote.org or any of my other pro bono work why not just ask?
There’s a DellHooWeb link in the site info area of every cause that we volunteer for. The Oklahoma City site is no different. They have a “webmaster” link and an reference to DellHooWebs right on their site.
I’m surprised that you went through all those unnecessary steps. All you had to do was scroll down and click the link.
I have already received several inquires from Oklahoma City and responded to each of them.
Similarly, if you have questions regarding DellHooWebs causes, associations, or involvement in the March4Vote.org site or any other site, just ask. You can call me, provide a phone number, or reply to this e-mail. I’m not sure how you left a message as you state on your site as I do not have an answering machine on that phone.
DellHooWebs is charitable work that I do in my spare time. It is not associated with my professional career and my employment information is not needed to reach me. Being contacted at work regarding DellHooWebs is inappropriate.
Thomas E Dellner
550 Stockton Street
San Francisco, CA 94108
To which message I replied …
DellHoo (Thomas Dellner?), or whoever it is that you are or claim to be, I did ask.
I called the number you listed below [in the e-mail chain, it was “below”, but here I’ve put the messages in chronological sequence], 415-399-9794, twice, yesterday. As it turned out, you are not in their automated voice mail system.
You asked “how” I could have left a message for you. Here’s how: When it was observed that your name was not in the voice mail directory at that number (by typing in the first 4-5 letters of your last name as instructed and then being advised that none were there by that name), I pressed “0” [zero] as instructed and left a message with my REAL name, my REAL phone number, and requested a call back from YOU, Thomas Dellner. I called you nowhere else nor will I do so.
How about this … you call ME at the number I left in the voice mail there: 405-830-xxxx [changed here for cell phone privacy – he got the real number in my e-mail reply]. My real name is Doug Loudenback. I live in Oklahoma City. I have a real Oklahoma driver’s license and my Oklahoma Bar Association number is 5532. I will take your call if it is from area code 415, as you state below.
After March 4, it won’t matter here, though it might to some Floridians or wherever else it is that you panhandle your phony “local” anti-arena websites. You were listed as being from St. Petersburg in the Florida website, right? That’s a long stretch from San Francisco.
I am done with you unless YOU call me. I am, however, forwarding your message to local press people in Oklahoma City, should they be interested. You might offer to come by next week with them and have a cup of coffee.
Have a great day.
Stay tuned! The above was copied to people at the Journal Record and Oklahoman.
If you’ve checked out the www.march4vote.org website lately, you see that it says that, “Chris, Dale, Eugene, & Rob,” with strikeouts through the 1st 3 names … only Rob (whoever he is, if he exists), and Thomas Dellner, are left to pour the cup for Mr. Streuli.
So, what’s next? Google the phone number, of course!
Which is here …
Two “real” names appear in the above … Googling the first produced nothing useful … but for the other, Tom Dellner, well that’s a different story.
Googling “Tom Dellner” shows this person works at the University of California San Francisco …
And going there shows ..
Making progress, but still no “smoking gun.”
What about Googling “Thomas Dellner” “California” … that popped this up:
|OUCH! It Hurts To Have One’s Tongue Stuck on the Pole!
(Freezing pole burns may be better, though, than sucking on a bar of lye soap because of lies)
|Will the Pretty San Francisco Bunny Please Come Out of the Closet In San Francisco?
(not whether gay or straight, which doesn’t matter,
Welcome to Oklahoma City, California Okie, and Florida Adovcate Voter Power Tom Dellner! But, puhleeese, don’t say that you are from Oklahoma City. Cause that’s a really really big lie. You’re working in the legal department of the University of California at San Francisco, right? Get to work on your legal ethics, my man. Your misrepresentations do not speak well for you. Or for California. Or for the University of California at San Francisco. Or for its Legal Department. Not even for the anti-March 4 vote people who are really from Oklahoma City.
My Initial Analysis. I was doing a little reading in one of my favorite places, Dustbury, and read Charles’s Hill’s post entitled, “Not quite a slam dunk just yet.” He linked to an “opposition vote” website, www.march4vote.org. I’d seen it before, after the story about its existence broke in the Tacoma, Washington’s News Tribune on February 9, 2008. The article’s headline reads, “Oklahoma group fights arena-funding initiative.”
After looking at the content of the website, it looked to me like a class-based kind of place (“rich vs. not-rich”), and I pretty much dismissed it as being insignificant since its persuasive factor struck me as shallow, useless, and, therefore, harmless. I noticed then that the website does not identify its owners other than by first names. Since “last” names are not used, it is impossible to confirm that the “first” names mentioned are real, either. The only “real” persons identified by first and last names are those that the website takes aim at … such as the person shown in the screen shot below:
But, reading Mr. Hill’s article, I became more curious … who is/are the anonymous people behind this website?
I decided to see what I could find using internet tools which help to identify a website’s IP address and such.
Here are a few screen shots of what I found:
This one produced the following information about the IP address …
But, this one gave more detail, shown in the following screen shots …
… and scrolling down to see the right-bottom info box …
“Hmmmm …,” I wondered to myself … I do that a lot … why is the owner of the domain not identified there (in the last picture) … soooo … I decided to see what I could find on Network Solution’s “Who Is” feature. The Network Solutions result contained a bunch of stuff not needed to be said here, but just for completeness, it reported the following:
Created On:04-Feb-2008 06:59:25 UTC
Last Updated On:04-Feb-2008 06:59:28 UTC
Expiration Date:04-Feb-2009 06:59:25 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Melbourne IT, Ltd. dba Internet Names Worldwide (R52-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant Name:Voter Power
Registrant Organization:Private Registration US
Registrant Street1:P O Box 99800
Registrant Postal Code:94662
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Admin Name:Admin PrivateRegContact
Admin Organization:Private Reg US
Admin Street1:P O Box 99800
Admin Postal Code:94662
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Tech Name:TECH PrivateRegContact
Tech Organization:Private Reg US
Tech Street1:P O Box 99800
Tech Postal Code:94662
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Oh … I forgot to add what appeared in the very end of the Network Solutions report …
The previous information has been obtained either directly from the registrant or a registrar of the domain name other than Network Solutions. Network Solutions, therefore, does not guarantee its accuracy or completeness.
Show underlying registry data for this record
IP Address: 126.96.36.199 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-WASHINGTON-SEATTLE
DMOZ no listings
Y! Directory: see listings
Web Site Title: March 4 Vote.org
Good Gawd! IP Location, US(UNITED STATES)-WASHINGTON-SEATTLE!
What a hoot!
“We learned that domain name “VermontSenateRace.com” was registered with Melbourne IT LTD., a firm with an Emeryville, California, address, on October 5, 2005. Our Internet-savvy sources say it’s a registry one would use if one wanted to “anonymize” ownership of the website. The purpose of an “anonymizing” service is to hide the tracks of whoever is really behind it. Anyone who signs up gets to use the Emeryville, CA post-office box as their website administrator’s address.”
Nowwwwww … going back to that Tacoma, Washington, headline, “Oklahoma group fights arena-funding initiative,” all one can do is to slap one’s head and say to one’s self, “I shoulda known!” It’s the anonymous Okies who still live in California, or our anonymous cousin Okies who’ve moved on to Seattle!
Now, to be sure, does all the above mean that the anonymous people who are doing the www.march4vote.org website are absolutely NOT from Oklahoma City? No, not with certainty. But, if they are from Oklahoma and/or Oklahoma City, it’s pretty clear that they have gone to very great lengths to cover their tracks. And they talk about accountability! And, recall again … this organization became known to the world via the Tacoma News Tribune and also Seattle newspapers. One must wonder, why?
It is also fair enough to opine,
If it looks like a duck,
… a duck
Postscripts after midnight following the day of this post:
- Record Number of Hits Yesterday! I have a relatively small-internet-presence blog devoted to Oklahoma City History, a sub-interest, the NBA in OKC, and whatever else I may chose from time to time. So, compared to many blogs, the numbers of today’s hits won’t knock your socks off … but … for Doug Dawgz little feet it’s very pleasing to note that on February 11, 2008, my “new record” of single-day “hits” was set … 322 visits and 588 page views. For the really big-hitters like Okc’s Dustbury, these numbers are just a pittance. But, for a relatively newbie blogger like me, it feels really good! Thanks to all who came!
- A Special Note About The Seattle Times Sonics Board. Even though I’ve never registered there, nor have I ever posted there, I am well aware that one or more jerks has/have feigned my and other Oklahoma City internet poster identities at the Seattle Times Sonics Board as a ploy in their internet game of smoke and mirrors, creating deception and false blame. Hopefully, the readers of that board are sufficiently intelligent to see that they were/are being seen as being so damn dumb as not to be able to figure out what was actually going on by those who pose as others, including me. As for me, I have been the “benefactor” of more than one uncomplimentary pseudo-name by a fake-registrant on that board … one of the fake names was “Doug Barebacker,” which kinda describes the classiness of the Seattle Times Sonics Board itself — though not a member of that board, many months ago I e-mailed the Seattle Times to complain but never got a response. The above post was mentioned in that board yesterday and, to one person, at least, the “Doug Barebacker” moniker was attributed to me one more time as having posted there before. This person is an obvious exception to what one would hope to be the higher-end level of intellect on that board in general. The Seattle Times doesn’t moderate its Sonics Board even for extreme profanities (e.g., bestiality, anal sex references, etc., are all OK there) … which says something about the Seattle Times organization itself. Anyway, back to the “thanks” part … a goodly number of yesterday’s total number of hits came directly from that board … and, for that, I give a shout out to that board! Keep ’em coming and come on down! Every little bit helps, even if that was not intended!
Tuesday, February 12, 4:45 p.m. Update. While the “duck” analogy is nice, it would be better still were some more feathers to be plucked, so to speak. So, I’ve done some further looking. What I ran across this afternoon is this website that does “Reverse DNS Lookups,” in addition to the more standard search methods (using an IP address and/or the domain name). Try it out for yourself … go here and scroll down to the “Reverse DNS Lookup” area, and, there, type in 188.8.131.52 (previously identified as this place’s IP address) and click the RevDNS search button …
… and this is what you’ll see …
Wednesday, February 12, 8:30 a.m. OK, Maybe I’m Wrong About the IP Stuff! Damn, I hate it when it happens!
If you’ve read the Comments in this post, you know that an anonymous poster left a comment in the “Index” page area, which is not OK … should have been left here … and that it needed some cleaning up before I’d allow it to be posted.
I assume that it’s the same Anonymous person who left another comment, again in the Index section, which is not OK. So, I’ll just post it, unedited, here:
You still don’t get it, and you may end up looking very stupid because of it. “The location shown strikes me as not being ambiguous and is yet another piece of information which, by all appearances, links Seattle to the website in question. But, then again, maybe that’s because of my lack of understanding. Perhaps you can speak to why Seattle, Washington, popped out as the location when using the reverse lookup.”
184.108.40.206 is a NAT (Network Address Translation) Melbourne, IT is one of the world’s largest registrar of domain names. They are the exclusive registrar for Yahoo! – Melbourne runs the 216.39 NAT. Your lack of understanding is way obvious. The 216.39 NAT IP has nothing to do with the site or it’s owners. It’s the domain registration. Melbourne is yahoo’s vendor. Melbourne’s servers happen to be in Seattle. In less than a minute you could find 1,000 sites that use the same 216.39 NAT thru Seattle. Go look up any Yahoo hosted site and you’ll find it. Your total lack of understanding of how Domains, IPs, Hosting, and Servers work has left you completely exposed. If the people running the March4 site cared enough to find your blog, they could make you look like a total Bozo in about 2 seconds. You may want to rethink your approach to this.
Anonymous, Bozo is one of my middle names! While I’m never overly impressed or easily persuaded by anyone on the internet who feels the need to mask themselves with anonymity (you included), I’m frankly unconcerned what any of the owners of march4vote.org might think about what I’ve said here … I might see it differently if they had the forthrightness to identify themselves … just like I’ve always done, sometimes at my peril. On one occasion, a “MySpace” account was set up using my “profile” information here to create a scurrilous MySpace page which pretended that “he” was “me,” down to date and place of birth, etc. It was ugly, and it was intended to be. On my request and after I’d learned of its existence, MySpace removed the account. For a time, this “poser,” finding safe-haven at the Hornets New Orleans website, reveled in what he’d done (he was apparently from the Seattle area) and many there got a good laugh at my expense. While “anonymity” may be a safe path for cowards and bullies to take, it’s not one that I’ve chosen to take for myself. It was also my choice to post your remarks here, verbatim, even though you didn’t post your anonymous comment where you were advised to do.
Logical Analysis. The above said, I’ve got to admit that there is a ring of truth about Anon’s comments, though, and he/she may well know what he/she is talking about. So, let’s assume, for purposes of discussion, that Anon is correct and that the “Seattle, Washington” stuff reflected in two reports (Network Services when checking the domain name, and DNSstuff.com when doing the reverse DNS lookup) are totally superfluous in determining the REAL home of www.march4vote.org. If that be so what are we left with in determining whether these guys are really from Oklahoma City, or even Oklahoma? Let’s have a look at a pair of facts:
- 1. The story about the organization broke in Washington newspapers. That almost certainly means that someone in march4vote.org contacted one or more Washington reporters to “break the news.”
- 2. The group has not made itself known in any of the local (read that, Oklahoma City) media. There are plenty of media outlets in Oklahoma City other than the Oklahoman, assuming for purposes of discussion that the Oklahoman would decline to carry it.
What do these facts have to do with the question at hand, which is, “Who are these bozos?”
Reflect on this …
YOU, as an Oklahoma City person or persons are opposed to the March 4 vote and you want to attempt to persuade other Oklahoma Citians to vote, “No.” You decide to set up an internet site as a means of making your case. How would you go about doing that? Again, recall that your object is persuasion. What would YOU do?
|WOULD YOU DO THIS …
|… OR WOULD YOU DO THIS?
|First, you would contact reporters located in Washington State and announce your plans. You think that this will be persuasive to your fellow Oklahoma Citians and will help get the word out locally.
|First, you would contact one or more (as many as would listen) local media outlets to announce your internet presence. You think that this will be persuasive to your fellow Oklahoma Citians and will help get the word out locally.
|Second, you decide it would not be best to make contacts with members of the Oklahoma City media, since that wouldn’t help with exposure to your thoughts as well as your internet presence for your intended Oklahoma City audience — after all, you don’t want to become a nuisance.
|Second, you follow up on your initial announcement (made in Oklahoma City) with repeated attempts to obtain interviews with additional Oklahoma City news sources, be that one or more of the four sports talk radio stations in Oklahoma City, and or other media sources. You’re glad to become a nuisance and get as much Oklahoma City attention as possible.
|Third, you fill your website which is laden with negative innuendo about wealthy people who reside in and contribute to the community and slap ’em around a bit. That will show the rich guys that you mean business, anonymously!
|Third, you fill your website with content which is not personality driven but which is idea driven, since you think that your ideas and reasons are solid and will be persuasive. You take the “high road” and don’t get down into the gutter since that would detract from your purpose of persuading Oklahoma Citians that your ideas have substantive merit.
|Fourth, you set up your website so that no trace of it identifies Oklahoma and/or Oklahoma City, but instead contains items which (to the uninformed) point to Seattle.
|Fourth, so that you will be perceived as credible and local, you identify your website as being located in and operated out of Oklahoma and/or Oklahoma City. You don’t want people to confuse what you are doing with some phony non-Oklahoma sources which take pleasure in smearing Oklahoma City.
|Last, you decide not to tell anyone who you are since you already know that some people will believe anything they read, regardless of who it is that writes it. Beside that, you are a bit of a coward. Since you value stealth, you will feel good about yourself. So, all things considered, anonymity fits all of your needs.
|Last, since you understand that most people are not stupid and want to know who is trying to persuade them, and, since you’ve taken the “high road” by talking only about your ideas and haven’t gotten “personal” in the content of your communication, you identify “who” it is that “you” are. You understand that this will enhance your credibility. You understand that doing so is “gutsy,” but you are not a coward, and you understand that your openness will improve your “standing”. As a plus, you will also feel good about yourself.
Ohhhh … you’d take the green path at the left?
… hmmmm …
… verrry interesting …
Saturday, February 16. This post has not been well received by all. I received a private message at Hornets/SonicsCentral.com which I’ll chose to make “public” here, just so you can see the venom (as well as the intellectual content) that has and will come our way by the real bozos … the complete “private message” reads like this:
Message from InClayWeTrust
Great work on the site! Here’s an image I created to help with the recruitment efforts of the Sonics!
Notwithstanding that the comment author’s graphic skills are much less than pedestrian,InClayWeTrust’s comment speaks for itself as to the intellectual and emotional content evidenced by the poster. The poster evidently thought that a “dead Honeybee” (eyes crossed with “Xs”) was a nice touch. Is that type of feedback representative of New Orleans and Seattle? I hadn’t thought so, but with that comment, it becomes harder to say … you be the judge.
Any and all posters from New Orleans and/or Seattle wanting to disassociate or align themselves from InClayWeTrust will be immediately acknowledged. Are there any of you ready to do that, either way?
Related blog posts:
- Precinct Vote Tally
- We Are The Champions!
- Can It Fail?
- Breaking Through
- Bricktown Bash
- Roy Williams at Cafe Do Brazil
- Ford Center Watch Party
- Tramel Gets It Right
- Unabashed Pro March 4 Vote Video
- Ford Center Initiative
- Hornets 2 Year Retrospective Flash Video
- Okc … Yes or No, on getting an NBA team
- Okc in NBA … Where Are We?